Unless I’m missing something, saving patterns separately would be a great feature.
So I can have 100 different patterns that include the steps, reverse, pitch, etc, regardless of the samples/loops I’m using, then I could load different packs while maintaining that pattern. Right now it seems that it loads everything, which is not ideal. The same applies to PlayBeat.
I see your point.
However the preset settings have to do with the particular audio which is included in the preset. We made several tests about this and we couldn’t find a usable case where you would want to use settings that sound good for one loop and use the same to other loops. It depends of the audio file that is loaded. In any case, it is an easy addition and we can try it on our upcoming update.
About Playbeat, you already have that option. By clicking to expand the preset name (arrow icon) you will see that you have the option to load the pattern of another preset, the sounds only, or of course both by double-click.
Can you confirm this is what you are after?
The idea of this kind of plugin is that unexpected results sometimes are the best ones. We never know if a pattern from one preset could be an interest take on other sounds. This is why you allow the user to only randomize the samples/loops, right? So that means that the same pattern using different sources can in fact work with other sounds. This is the same approach, but allowing the user to save those patterns as separate presets.
I am all about easy of use and how quick someone can work. In this case, having to click an arrow, click Load Pattern, then if I don’t like it, click another arrow, click another Load Pattern button, etc, seems like a poor user experience. You could leave that option intact, but saving patterns individually would be a better option. For example, maybe I want to save 100 drum patterns and have them all next to each other in a folder and then load a drum kit and by clicking just 1 arrow, it would load the next pattern, then the next, etc.
Sure, but isn’t this exactly the same as simply randomizing the parameters with new samples? I still do not understand the need for a special effects settings to be saved without the samples themselves, but as i said, it is really easy to do and we can try adding this.
About Playbeat, what you propose is what we had on our older version 2.0. There was a pop-up window that asked you to save the pattern only or the pattern + the samples. We received so much negative feedback for this as it was really a slow and corrected this to the recent version with the extra flexibility to provide to the users the ability to load the patter/sounds/ or all of them together.
Maybe the solution to this would be a toggle on the settings panel , applied globally , which will ask how the presets would be browsed. loading only patterns or loading patterns with sounds. Would this be a solution to your workflow?
Not all all. You can have a pattern that almost sounds like a drum pattern, for example. Regardless of the samples you use, there’s a certain “feel”. To make it simple:
This pattern is a basic pattern that you can see in a drum kit. Now on top of that, you can have specific effects, such as the Reverse, on track 3, step 11.
This has a particular groove and changing the samples will keep the groove. It will not sound like a kick, snare, HiHat, for example, but the groove is there and when you are looking for a particular groove for a section, maybe you don’t want something overly complex. Maybe you want a specific space between each sound and you don’t want it to be random. You want the samples to be random, but not the pattern.
So saving the pattern alone would allow the user to keep certain patterns, separate from the presets.
It doesn’t have to be global. When you click Save, it shows you this:
If you just add a checkbox:
Pattern Only ▢
then the user can decide what to do. Since most of the time we save both, the boxes would be unticked by default. If we want to just save the pattern, we tick it.
Then we would have another section in the browser to just load patterns, similar to the presets where they are stacked and can be loaded with 1 click only.
I’m not sure if you are familiar with Nerve, but the plugin has a lot of ways to save things. You can save everything, just the samples (Playbeat’s packages), just a particular pad’s pattern, all pads’ patterns
Okay, so this is very similar to what we had on version 2.
But you suggest that ‘patterns only’ should appear on a different tab on the left side when you open the preset manager?
Perhaps under user ‘presets’, we have a ‘patterns’ menu? Do i get this right?
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Yes, but instead of asking what the user wants to do, which by default is to save everything, saving a pattern would be an option that we would tick. I also find it annoying when I have to keep ticking boxes when the default behavior is “A”, but when I just want B, I like having that option and I don’t mind changing my flow for that particular situation.
Exactly. You have Presets, which is both pattern and samples.
Then you have packages, which are just samples.
The only thing missing is Patterns.
Maybe I have a drum kit I like, but I want a particular pattern, or I want to just go through a bunch of them and see which one fits my songs.
Okay, but what about when i want to load other samples to a current pattern? You can do that manually of course, by dropping samples, but what do you mean by ‘packages’ ?
I mean we already provide this option by clicking on the load sounds/load patterns, it seems that we now have to implement a totally different saving system on top of what we already have.
We can add the option to save patterns, but to load certain sounds to this pattern should come via the ‘load sounds only’ option on the preset manager.
Will this work for you?
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It’s the “Packs” you already have. For some reason, I always call those “Packages”.
You don’t have to do it “manually”. If I save 8 samples I like as a Pack, then I can load that Pack into the current pattern.
This is about the user experience, not so much about having the feature implemented already. If you ask anyone if they rather click 10 buttons to get something versus clicking 1, the answer would be obvious. In this case, you want users to being able to quickly load new patterns on top of a kick they already have, without clicking more menus, more buttons. Click once > loads pattern 1. Click one > loads pattern 2. Simple.
Right now:
Click arrow > click load pattern > loads pattern 1
Click another arrow > click load pattern > loads pattern 2
We went from 2 clicks, to 4 clicks. Now do the math for 30 patterns just in one session.
Not really, because a preset can have a name and a pattern will be something completely different.
I can have presets like:
Sunshine
Dark Roads
Not gonna lie
etc
Does that mean that the patterns on those presets match my “reggae” song, for example? No. Or maybe I just want to save Hihat patterns and for that I want to have patterns saved as:
HiHat Reggae Pattern 01
HiHat Reggae Pattern 02
HiHat Reggae Pattern 03
HiHat Progressive House Pattern 01
HiHat Progressive House Pattern 02
HiHat Rock Pattern 01
HiHat Rock Pattern 02
HiHat Rock Pattern 03
HiHat Rock Pattern 04
My suggestion is: don’t try to “cut corners”. Make things right, even if it takes longer. It’s better to deliver a better product, than just adding something that’s “half way there”.
We didn’t try to cut corners here, we believe we have a flexible manager that really few apps on the market have.
We utilize 1-click import/export of expansions with the ability to use the patterns/sounds or both on fully unlocked packs.
In any case, what you propose is something different. The app is designed to work well with presets. We can try the approach but the packs are still patterns+samples, this can not change.
We can have the option to save patterns only, but we have to find another way to browse through samples for these patterns.
In Playbeat there is a semantic confusion as to what is meant by a Preset, since a Preset serves two different (though tightly related) purposes.
First, a Preset is a rhythmic pattern plus the assigned samples that define a song. Second, a Preset can be used for variants to a rhythmic pattern, a song using several of these (up to 16) for variety. This use is strongly suggested by the presence of the Preset slots on the main screen.
This confusion can only be solved by introducing a new concept of the Variant. It is these Variants that would be saved in the 16 slots of the Preset. Variations would not show up in the Preset browser, reducing clutter. For a performance you would load the Preset, then choose a variant.
My suggestion might not entirely solve the OPs problem, but it would be useful. This enhancement would require changing the architecture of the Preset file format, but I don’t think any interface changes would be necessary.
EDIT: An interface change would be needed since the number next to the Preset in the Preset browser would no longer have a meaning.
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Hi robin0112358,
Thanks for reaching out.
Indeed in our latest Loopmix plugin we have a different approach where various remixes (user created or automatically generated) can be saved along with a preset. We are using a multi-functional keyboard at the bottom of the UI for this, which we are working to port to all of the other tools.
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Interesting!
As it turns out, Loopmix is the only one of your products I don’t own. I bought everything else in the sale, even if I might not use Riffer etc. much. I thought it was worth supporting you after seeing how responsive your company is to change.
Thanks for your support,
If you’re not using Riffer as often, I’m happy to replace it with our newest Loopmix. Just let me know and i will take care of it.
Ah don’t worry about that! I bought Riffer and ChordJam just because I might use them once in a blue moon.
I’m new to Playbeat (great by the way!), but also finding this Preset/Pattern issue frustrating. For ex., I’m trying to use it to generate percussion patterns, where the sounds are in a sampler app. i.e., I’m only using it as midi to drive external conga or shaker presets with Playbeat generating variations on patterns. For a single piece of music I’m ending up with a dozen or so patterns, which I save (… as Presets) and then use Midi notes to trigger as the music plays through. But I can’t work out what to do when I switch to a different song or music, it doesn’t seem easy or intuitive to work with the patterns outside of the inbuilt sounds (which I never use).