I have no problem with Playbeat 4 taking a different approach to handling MIDI than other drum machines (or really, generative sequencers). The problem is, there is literally nothing to clearly and adequately explains this in the user manual or the YouTube tutorial. In fact, AI narrator script for your YouTube Complete Overview video has a single sentence on this that states “If you want to use the MIDI within your DAW, you can drag and drop the MIDI.”
Now, the VAST majority of people are going to assume that MIDI Export works the same way as it does in every other plugin of this type, and not the way it is designed. And without a clear explanation and tutorial on this, people are going to be rightly confused and frustrated.
Eric, Playbeat 4 is a generative sequencer plugin. It is designed with machine learning randomization algorithms and now AI to literally generate sequences for you. It is a generative plugin. Are you intentionally being obtuse?
My post above clearly describes how every other sequencer plugin’s MIDI export features work. And yes, they ALL are designed to allow exporting of its sequence to then be fed back into its own sound engine to generate the sounds for playback. Have you ever used a sequencer plugin other than Playbeat? Have you ever exported its MIDI output? You either have never used anything other than Audiomodern’s plugins and you just don’t know these things, or you are trying to be argumentative. There are no other possibilities here.
I’ve been reading the forums about PB4 but I just decided to sign up to reply to this one.
I know exactly what @oobesan and @Audiomodern are both saying. I’m not a dev at all so maybe this isn’t possible but I think there’s kind of a fix or middle ground.
There needs to be an easy way to set and lock pitches sequentially on the sequencer track lanes. Not just in the Fixed Note Output settings. I do understand this would change how some presets behave and sound but I think it should at least be an option or toggle. Then if a user exports MIDI to their DAW on the Playbeat track itself, it should work like @oobesan and others want.
“Original triggers” meaning if I export the Kick lane, when I play it back from a MIDI sequence, it triggers the kick on c1; if I export the snare lane it triggers the snare on c#1, etc, as is shown in the tiny keyboard on the bottom.
I now know that I can use the fixed note export stuff but that is not at all obvious (what does the little “plug” icon really mean?), not well-detailed in the documentation (it makes it seem like it’s only for external MIDI and not applicable for export), and the default values all being c3 is… odd. And the manual doesn’t even mention what “lock MIDI outputs” does.
And then if you DO use the fixed note to get it down into the trigger range for export, it transposes the sample if you switch back to the sequencer on playback. That’s something I can live with, but it seems like the triggers and the sequencer should be mutually exclusive.
Allow me to know a thing or two about sequencers. A sequence triggered by a MIDI note “On” and running until note “Off” isn’t a new concept nor was invented by AM, this has his has been the standard way to trigger most loop-based or sequence-based kontakt instruments for over two decades, if not more.
Also, when a sixth of the UI is dedicated to triggers and a sequencer with steps is displayed in the center, what else would you expect? That adding MIDI notes to your track would mute or disable the sequencer when played back? That wouldn’t make any sense.
So, it turns out that you are, in fact, jumping on the thread just to be argumentative and have nothing helpful to those who have questions or are stuck. And none of which was constructive.
I think these Community forums should be about, well, community. And a way to interact with Audiomodern’s staff. It should not be a place for users to be condescending and pick fights with other users. Have a good day.
Anyway, I understand now what PB4 MIDI Export does and doesn’t do. I’ve spent way too much energy and time on this.
No, that’s not at all what I’m saying. Let’s put aside the note on/note off run-the-whole-lane stuff.
I’m saying your MIDI export should be playing the sample triggers, in the “sounds” in the bottom, and the fixed note for export /output shouldn’t be affecting the notes on the sequencer lanes. Trigger the sequences from the sequencer, they should play as entered in the sequencer. Export the MIDI for the lanes and they should trigger c1-b1, as you would if you were playing the sampler from a controller. MIDI export/external settings should not be affecting the sequencer and the sequencer’s non-export-friendly settings should not be affecting the export/external.
So fine, I gotta go in and adjust the fixed notes. But then I adjust the fixed notes, so I can get the export I want, and THAT changes all the notes in the original PB sequencer. So then if I want to use the sequencer again for anything or generate new sequences, I gotta go back into the fixed note and reset everything.
It’s all well and good if you’re going to do absolutely everything in PlayBeat itself, but once you venture outside that - which I would imagine a lot of users would like to do regularly - things get non-intuitive and the manual doesn’t do a great job of explaining it.
It’s probably going to be easier for me to export the audio tracks, then slice and alter the audio, instead of using MIDI export and treating the thing like a drum sampler. Which is unfortunate and complicates my workflow. Based on the other responses I don’t think said workflow is all that unusual.
I think Triaz does this correctly. It also has a pitch tab and even some automation lanes. It exports the notes in regular positions and it adds the pitches as automation (I think CC messages).
I think the conclusion is that Playbeat is not meant to be played from midi clips with regular notes. I am getting used to creating different versions of patterns and saving them, so I can use the trigger notes to choose the right pattern. Not my preferred workflow but it works.
I’ve been working on a video tutorial for PB4 and using MIDI out for different scenarios after seeing a number of questions on the forum. I use PB4 on iPad and I’ve used MIDI out with PB3 quite a bit. In the process I realized that there are a number of different ways to do it, so I’m reworking the video. Along the way I needed to keep track of different setups and how things change, for example if you load a preset or randomize, and I’ve got a draft version of a spreadsheet that covers some of it. A couple of screenshots are attached. I can’t guarantee it’s 100% accurate yet, so let me know if there are errors. This is based on using Playbeat 4 version 4.0.4 on iPad with AUM.
Okay, we understand there might be some confusion about the triggering options and MIDI usage. We’ll work on creating a new tutorial for this as soon as possible.
What I understand from several threads is that Playbeat edits midi files not by exporting midi files, but by changing and saving patterns through the midi controller or the keyboard section within Playbeat.
I also think that the usual midi file export and midi note editing within the DAW is a common and convenient way, but Audiomodern seems to think differently.
Above all, it would be good if these unique points were sufficiently conveyed through YouTube channels or some other ways, but it is unfortunate that you can only learn through the manual “and” trial and error during actual use, and that even in these forums, there are only one-sided explanations from the developer’s perspective.
I have to agree here. That’s how I would expect it to work. Really having a hard time implementing PB4 into my workflow. It’s a really great ideas generator but really hard to just get the basic midi out once I have a nice groove. At least there should be an option to export that basic midi (without the pitch stuff)
Audiomodern, Please make a simple pattern export (GM for example) a priority.
Let all the stuff that can’t be exported along with it be an incentive to work with the app the way it was intended but allow basic workflow continuity with other leading apps in this space.
We could give this a try, but keep in mind that it would make the pitch engine obsolete during playback, affecting most presets. The last thing we want is to turn this into a drum sampler rather than a sequencer. Right now, we’re working on MIDI import with different mappings, and we’ll explore whether there’s a way to combine both features.
Thats great.
I am now getting a better idea of it’s intended use. Fortunately or unfortunately, PB4 seems to fill gaps/and or weak spots in apps like Algonaut and XO - namely the drum sequencing - and it seems that is how a fair percentage of users are approaching it.
While it transcends that function, it seems embracing it will make people happy.
The most important issue is that the MIDI export feature has not been effectively explained or demonstrated for the last two generations of Playbeat. Users in this Community and other forums (eg KVR) have complained for years that MIDI Export is broken in Playbeat 3, and now 4. And it was all just a misunderstanding! Clearly, the YouTube tutorials and the User Manual have never appropriately sufficient. Otherwise, there wouldn’t be so many confused users. I think it’s a great product, and I’ve supported Audiomodern by purchasing all their instruments and multiple expansions. But, this has been a years-long failure of communication, and that’s hard to understand.
I agree that the pitch component is a nice thing to preserve. But one thing I don’t understand is, if the pitch shifting is all done inside PB, why can’t it be exported as automation instead of the current method? Same question with panning. You already have a mixer in Playbeat, and these controls can be automated in the DAW.
I don’t think anyone would ever mistake Playbeat for a drum sampler instrument. People buy Playbeat for its generative sequencer abilities. Period. However, once we have found something we think is special, we want to preserve it by exporting it to our DAW. But we also want to tweak it periodically with a ghost kick bjhere and there or a fill at the end of a 16 bar phrase. Whatever. That is why we want the ability to export the MIDI into our DAW timeline. It is much more intuitive to do it this way- in the timeline of the DAW, and all of the surrounding tracks- than to do it as 12 variations/remixes within Playbeat. Hope this makes sense.
Apologies if that’s not clear. This has been the intended behavior of Playbeat since version 1.0.0.
MIDI output is designed exclusively to control other modules.
Regarding the trigger modes, here’s a video demonstrating how they can be used in a project.
